To start class today, I’d like you to reflect on the selections from Helen Thorpe’s book Just Like Us and consider it in relation to appeals to ethos. How does Thorpe establish her ethos as a writer and cultivate good will with her readers? How does she present the stories of these young women so as to establish their good character and/or humanize them in such a way as to get readers to suspend any judgment they may have because two of them are undocumented? What makes them sympathetic figures? (Or conversely, what undermines these impulses?)
As you conclude your response, please suggest one or two questions (about ethos or other issues you found interesting) that you think could guide our discussion today.
One way that Helen Thorpe establishes her goodwill as a rhetor, is by going beyond the girls' citizenship situations. By diving into their histories and describing their senior prom, she is interested in conveying how normal these girls are. They went through the same situation that I faced as I was getting ready for my Senior Prom. How should I do my hair? Does my makeup look okay? So, starting at the senior prom humanizes the girl in a way. Another way in which Helen Thorpe secures her ethos is by showing how much potential these girls have. She praises Marisela for working hard and achieving a high GPA. Therefore, she addresses the girls in a positive manner rather than looking down upon them for their illegal status in the country. In addition, by relating to the girls in the introduction, this establishes Thorpe's authority in addressing the issue of identity. She says that she had an odd sense of dual identity because she was born in London and then emmigrated to the United States. Therefore, in a way she knows what it feels like to be considered a foreigner or an alien because she is not originally from the United States. This gives her credibility and the right to address the issue of immigration. Then, the fact that Thorpe recognizes that she indeed has nothing in common with the girls further establishes her good will. She realizes that she was much better off than the girls. She says, "They had been assigned a position at the bottom of society and I had gained a spot at the top" (Thorpe 2). She recognizes their struggles and hardships but admits that she has no idea how hard it must be for them. Furthermore, she changes the names of the characters and is sensitive to the repercussions that they could suffer due to her book.
ReplyDeleteIn her book Just Like Us, Helen Thorpe writes in a way that not only creates a great emotional attachment to the characters, but also generates respect for their characters. Thorpe introduces how her interaction with these 4 young girls came to be and her own emotional connection she shares with them from being an immigrant. Thorpe convinces the audience that she holds a true connection with these girls because of her own upbringing in which she was not a U.S. citizen. She shares similar life experiences as she also moved to the united states when she was very young, and shares the feeling that although she is from a different place she was raised as an American. While doing so she writes in the first person, referencing her past and present situations as is she were casually referring to them in conversation. Thorpe also brings the four girls to be known not by their citizenship status but by their unique personalities and social lives, before she explains their legality. She talks about the prom, introducing the unique relationships within the group of friends by placing them in a social situation, instead of referring to those relationships abstractly. She develops their characters before addressing the main issue of these stories, which is the effect of their immigrant status on their lives.
ReplyDeleteInitially Thorpe establishes ethos by concealing the identities of the girls she is writing about, this shows how she is sympathetic towards the issues that surround immigrant’s lives and that she does not want to add to that. Going to Prom is a big event in many people’s lives, so Thorpe’s decision to use the girls going to prom as a background story allows many people to relate to them. Thorpe also highlighted how smart the girls are setting some of the scenes in the AP classes that they take, in this situation it could be possible to put someone who is not in favor of immigration in the position of being impressed by these girls or maybe envious of them. A lot of the struggles that these girls are facing comes from the battle they are in with how they will pay for college if it is even a possibility for them to go. But, these girls do wait for opportunities to come to them, they are very proactive in their hunt for scholarships to help pay for college. The fact that these girls are working so hard and are still facing barriers makes it very easy as a reader to be sympathetic towards them.
ReplyDeleteIn the introduction Thorpe begins to build the argument about her book, regarding the lives of four young girls, two of whom are illegal immigrants. In the introduction she explains how she is drawn to the girls, which helps to immediately make the reader feel like they understand who these girls are. The first chapter focuses on the girls preparing for prom, a super American trait which helps the reader connect with the girls understanding what that experience is like. In addition the discussion about Marisela worried about going to college, and getting accepted to scholarships, and all the like, is exactly the same worry that most high school seniors throughout the United States get. The rest of the reading selection focused on the girl’s time away at college, three at DU and one at Regis. During this time the girls are confronted with life situations that continue to challenge them, like the little things that Marisela and Yadira could not do as they were not US citizens. The stories are presented so that the reader can easily relate and feel the emotion behind what the girls can and cannot do. Reading about how hard it is for the girls to hide their immigration status from their friends at school because they are in a constant fear. The sympathy that this builds is great, which really helps to bolster the argument for positive immigration reform. Some ideas that we could focus on for today’s class are how establishing a good ethos involves a great amount of humanization that may feel out of place at first, but actually helps to strengthen the argument when it converges on the topic. Another idea would to discuss more about the characters, as I am curious to know what they made of their lives.
ReplyDeleteThorpe does a terrific job of humanizing these young women. One of the ways that she does this is by quoting certain conversations. For instance, in the beginning of the Breaking In section, Thorpe recounts what one of the girls said, "You guys, we look so dark, the security guards will think that we're trying to break in". By joking about such matters in this way, Thorpe is effectively humanizing the young women. She is saying that like all humans, these girls are capable of humour. Furthermore, the girls are humanized when Thorpe describes simple activities that the girl partake in. She talks about how the girl "loll on the grass", and shopping at Office Depot. This humanization also plays into ethos, because it enhances Thorpe's credibility by making an argument that is easy to side with.
ReplyDeleteIn her introduction to 'Just Like Us' Helen Thorp establishes an ethos for herself that shows her ability to write on the subject of immigration. On the first page, she opens the second paragraph by saying that she "has something in common with" the girls. We find out that her parents were immigrants from Ireland that came to the US from England. She describes how she grew up with a green card until achieving citizenship at the age of 21 and she never felt like she fit in the US, but also in England because she doesn't have strong memories from there. This shows how she has been in the same situation as the girls that she is writing about, and it gives her a sort of license to be able to comment on their possible feelings of inclusion or not. She presents the story with alot of background into the girls' lives in order to establish their identities and build their good character. She describes how they all achieve high grades, are well liked, and are generally hard working people. She does all of this before she introduces the fact that two of them are undocumented so that the reader can identify with all of them and any bias in the reader is suspended temporarily.
ReplyDeleteThe ethos in Just Like Us is evident through many aspects of the text. Thorpe establishes her ethos through fully explaining who she currently is, her background, and her motivations for exploring these issues. It is evident that she is clearly involved in Colorado’s politics, but also has ties to immigration through her own heritage. The stories of the four young women she is focusing on, appeal to ethos through establishment of a full identity outside of the fact that two of them are not legal citizens of the United States. She spends the majority of the introductory chapter illustrating their hard work ethic, academic success, and relatable teenage inclinations. When Thorpe does begin to discuss the matter of their citizenship, she does so in a sympathetic and exploratory manner.
ReplyDeleteQuestions:
How does Thorpe’s tone throughout the first few chapters impact the readers sense of the situation?
Did these first few chapters bring the issue of immigration into a different light at all?
It would be interesting to know whether these girls provide an accurate look into and surrounding the life of an illegal immigrant. i.e. How many illegal immigrants end up going to college and what is the average employment upon entering the workforce. It would be interesting to see how much of an economic impact illegal immigrants make and if a reevaluation of legalization procedure (or educational funding) would be beneficial.
ReplyDeleteHelen Thorpe establishes her ethos beginning in the introduction. This is in part because she seems to be legitimately interested in the life and struggle that these girls had to go through. She tells us part of her story of immigrating which allows us to see a bit into her life and get an idea of her background. She further establishes her ethos by talking about her husband which helps to establish that she likely has good moral character if she would be married to a government official. Also, her ethos is supported when she talks about how she tries to keep her journalistic endeavors separate from her husband’s life, which helps to make her seem like she has sincere morals when it comes to reporting a story. Helen establishes the young women’s ethos by making them sound like any young person at first. She talks about how they knew everything about each other and participate in normal young person activities like prom. This ethos continues as they struggle with the challenges of classes and normal life. However, they call upon the audience’s sympathy because they are faced with even harder challenges because of the difficulties of being undocumented. They can’t even rely on one of their closest friends, Luke, to keep their secret and trust them because people tend to be so vehemently opposed to illegal immigrants that they cannot understand the position these women are in.
ReplyDeleteHow (if at all) is the ethos of the women harmed in the story? How important is it to make the characters relatable and humanized to establish their ethos?
What rhetorical strategy does the humanization of the girls fall into? Is it more effective in persuading the audience of the authors credibility (ethos), or is it more effective in inducing some form of pathos?
ReplyDeleteI guess I would like to know more about the irony of the two legal girls knowing more about Mexico than the two Mexican Nationals. I would like to know if the two Mexican Nationals consider themselves American even though they don't have papers.
ReplyDeleteThorpe does an excellent job of establishing her ethos from the very beginning of Just Like Us. She establishes her own character by providing a brief description of her own life story. She explains the parallels between her own life and the lives of the four young women she followed. She, like the four girls, was brought to America from a foreign country at a very young age and has therefore grown up with a sense of two nationalities. By establishing that she too is an immigrant, Thorpe makes it clear that she would be a good judge of the issue of immigration and can better understand and interpret the lives of the four immigrant families she writes about.
ReplyDeleteThorpe's method of humanizing the girls can be seen in the first chapter describing their prom night. She makes it clear that the issues they were dealing with surrounding prom very much reflected those that American girls deal with on their own prom night: what to wear, how long they need to get ready, who their dates will be. By highlighting these similarities, Thorpe makes it clear to the reader that these girls are not that different from many American teenage girls, despite what stereotypes or prejudices the audience may hold.
Question: How does the way in which Thorpe describes girls' prom day/night help to better illustrate their character?
Was Thorpe's reference to her own childhood being similar to that of clara, yadira, marisela, and annalisa effective in establishing her own ethos? or did it feel forced, knowing that Thorpe, although technically an immigrant, was raised in the high end of society?
ReplyDeleteHelen Thorpe appears truly interested in the story of the four Mexican-American girls living in Denver, which is the first aspect that appeals to the ethos. Throughout the story it seems that she just observes the girls, listens to them and explores their lives. She appeals to ethos even further by presenting the story with much detail and direct quotes from the girl’s lives. The audience can tell that Helen knew them personally and they trusted her with their stories. She establishes their good character by humanizing them. She shares their conflicts that many of the readers can relate to- like being stressed and nervous for senior prom and the difficulties of having a roommate. And then after we can relate to these little problems they have, she goes in to how they have a much life-altering problem of whether they can even go to college, and when they can, if they can even use their college degree once graduated. If I had more than a fifty percent chance of not being able to use my degree once I graduated, I know it would be much more difficult to apply myself to school, and the fact that Marisela does shows how strong she is.
ReplyDeleteThe way that Helen Thorpe presents the girls made me very sympathetic and question my stance on immigration when I previously have been more against it. Do you think it was part of her goal to do this? And if she had presented the story differently, do you think the audience would see immigration differently?
Question:
ReplyDeleteI wonder why Thorpe chose to highlight illegal immigrants in a underprivileged school rather than in a affluant school?
Helen Thorpe develops her ethos in the beginning of the reading, her genuine concern for the lives and well being of the girls is palpable to the audience and communicates this sense of urgency to the reader. Also, allowing the audience to see that she too was an immigrant helps them to see her genuine nature of the importance of reporting the lives of these girls. She goes further to prove her credibility to the audience by using direct quotes from the girls. This was a process used both in the Laramie Project and Two Spirits in order to honestly present information that can lead to an emotional response in the audience. The attachment that the reader builds through hearing the life activities of the girls is particularly effective in pulling on their emotions later on in the text as the girls are struggling to deal with the difficulties in being undocumented aliens. Having these difficulties pertain to situations in our own lives as college students, are particularly effective of having us sympathize with the girls.
ReplyDeleteWhat audience do you think Thorpe was trying to reach and affect through Just Like Us?
In the introduction of Thorpe's book, she introduces her self and why she is drawn towards these young girls. Her background as a young girl and where she stands in society today. Referencing her and her political relationship in the State of Colorado, especially now that her husband is now the Governor, gives the reader either a trusting or skeptical, depending on one's opinions of politicians and their families, image right from the start. When she introduces the girls she talks about them as if they are any other young group of friends just getting ready for the prom. She builds the character of the girls by introducing their academic history and there social lives, such as partying and clubbing. By seeing them as simply typical high schoolers who get their work done and still enjoy themselves, it defers the readers attention from any judgement upon the fact that they are not in the country legally. They are seen to be sympathetic figures by the depiction of their home and their living conditions. The feeling of family that struggles brings the reader closer to the girls.
ReplyDeleteHow does a reader react to the presentation of the issue of immigration through the eyes of an illegal?
At the beginning of her book, Helen Thorpe introduces herself to the audience in the aptly named Introduction. Here she explains that she has been a journalist for over 15 years, which gives her credibility, as the book she goes on to write really is just one large piece of reporting. She also addresses how the book affected her and her family personally, showing the audience that she understood the emotional and personal affects the story she was telling could have. When she gave her background in journalism and displayed her knowledge about the affects of her work, Thorpe built up her ethos, making her a more credible author on the subject.
ReplyDeleteIn the novel, Thorpe introduced the audience to the girls by talking about their prom night. By describing this ritual of life that most teenage girls go through in America, she made them normal and minimized their differences. Differences between the illegal immigrants and the citizens were made out to be simply cultural differences. The normalcy of taking five hours to get ready with friends for prom or the typical problems that arise out of miscommunication between teenagers and their parents demonstrated that the girls were normal, like every other teenage girl out there (except for the fact that they were in America illegally). Thorpe does a good job of portraying the girl’s lives from their own perspective, from the perspective that because of their circumstances, they have to overcome many more hardships than their peers simply because they don’t have the correct papers. However, the audience is periodically reminded that these girls are in fact here illegally and that they don’t have the papers which let them lead an easy life.
How does Thorpe attempt to show that the girls are normal and have a right to an education like any other teenage girl?
Who do you think Thorpe’s target audience was?
From the very start of her writing, it is clear that Helen Thorpe has a very deep understanding for and connection to the girls featured in her story. From the very beginning she compares them to herself as she experienced the same emotions as they did in order to show her strong connection and caring to the subjects of her writing. I believe the beginning of the piece presented one of the strongest examples of humanization that I have ever read. Instead of diving straight into the issue of illegal immigration and undocumented children, she instead chooses to begin the book with an illustration of prom night. By focusing on the Prom night of these girls, from getting their hair done to dealing with intrusive parents, Thorpe shows that although these girls are undocumented they are just like every other high school student in this country. This really works to refocus the lens of the reader to see the girls as teenagers in America instead of illegal students. By doing this Thorpe creates an incredible amount of sympathy for the fact that the girls identify as American and have worked so hard and yet for two of them the chances of college and a normal life seem so far away. The direct conflict between the two girls that have become naturalized and the two that still can't become citizens the audience really does see the sad nature of the story as all girls are equally prepared and equally deserving of an education but only two are going to get the necessary scholarships and support. This conflict as it is presented to the audience is what really shapes the rhetoric and persuasive nature of this piece.
ReplyDeleteHow does Thorpe's allusion to her own childhood help to really strengthen her as a writer, especially when we know from the start that she was actually better off the the subjects of her piece?
Are the girls as characters meant to be instances of Pathos because of the emotion they feel, or instances of ethos as they seem to present a strong argument for why immigration and education is unfair?
Helen Thorpe establishes her ethos as a writer in portraying how in truly interested she is in the girl’s story within her book “Just Like Us.” In establishing her good will with her readers, she goes deeper into the story, beyond the girls’ citizenship status. The effect of this on the goodwill of the audience is in the way that this action alone establishes the good character of the girls, as well as humanizes them to something that the reader can connect to. In doing so, the reader suspends judgment on the girls just because of their undocumented status and makes them sympathetic figures. Similar life experiences like Senior Prom allows me to connect with the girls on a normal level, and begins the process of the story on a level playing field, free of judgment. It connects to my ethos as a reader as I have many undocumented friends, and though I think I understand their experiences, I really only see the ways in which their lives are like my own. I don’t get to see their struggles. Thorpe really allows me to access this in her manor of writing due to her strong ethos. Circling back to the topic, her ability to “normalize” the girls in figure yields us the ability to adequately assess their experiences within the realm of social justice and not through personal bias.
ReplyDelete1. How does a rhetor that comes across with a negative, or weak, ethos affect the overall argument and message being portrayed?
Besides from notifying the reader that she worked for fifteen years as a journalist, Helen Thorpe establishes her ethos by emphasizing her friendship with the four girls. The closeness she developed with them is apparent throughout the selections, and this elevates her from the status of an objective, removed journalist to something more of a understanding family member. In this position, Thorpe is able to frame the good character of the young women, humanizing them in such a way as to allow the audience to look past Marisela and Yadira’s status as illegal aliens. She focuses on events such as prom and college classes, connecting them with typical American culture. Furthermore, she stresses the girls’ interaction with privileged and in some ways ignorant students at DU. By showing how other students do not understand the world that the girls come from, Thorpes pushes the reader to do so in their place.
ReplyDeleteWhat role does gender (of the students) play in Thorpe’s appeals to ethos and logos?
Thorpe establishes her ethos primarily through her own narrative. In the beginning although she recognizes the degree in which coming from a family of immigrants is still different from the hispanic girls she studies, she still still appeals to the idea that she can still sympathize with them because she is immigrant. She tells her own story about how as a lung child her and her family moved from Europe to the United states and she grew up carrying a green card till she was about 21 when she became a neutralized citizen. She also strengthen her ethos by appealing to pathos in a way that demonstrates the struggle she went through. She discuses how it was hard growing up and explaining to her parents what a sophomore and junior were because her parents did not grow up knowing these terms in Europe. As the audience we we thus understand that she can easily sympathize with the girls and we can rely on her perspective.
ReplyDeleteBefore we see the girls as immigrants, illegal aliens, or their circumstance in general, because of the way Thorpe presents them we seem them as just girls. This appeal to pathos is strangle emphasized in her chapter, Prom. The way she depicts the girls worrying about what to wear, how to do their hair, how to get Marisela's dad from not attending prom and not knowing the boy she really is bringing to, this is the teenaged girl experience. She depicts them as pure Ameriacan girls and as the audience we want to sympathize with them because they are normal girls.
Questions:
If Thorpe would have skipped the chapter, Prom, would her claim for social justice been as effective?